Elsie Pea; Block Training; Police Chief; Lasers again

My Moderator's Logo from the old Elsie Pea Forum

Not too long ago, last year, the old Elsie Pea Forum (LCP) was sold off to an organization that runs forums. Many of them. The Elsie Pea Forum had grown to over 10,000 members and it was all five of us could do to keep things in check. We prided ourselves in stopping spam before it got started, keeping the atmosphere polite, if not cordial, preventing flame wars and keeping posters to the topic: no religion, no politics, no hatred. I will admit that there were times when this was trying, but if truth be told, the members themselves were very good about policing the forum and keeping troublemakers in line. If the members couldn't reign them in, the moderators did.

I was a big fan of Have Gun, Will Travel when I was as kid. I still think it was a TV show ahead of it's time, so I picked the logo, above, as my moderator calling card. I still moderate, but a much smaller forum where many of the Elsie Pea refugees hang out. http://www.compactcarryforum.com

Have Gun. Will Carry

Of course, it is more than that as anyone who has carried a concealed handgun for any time will tell you. Lately, I've been around the block more than once over dealing with the extra baggage that comes along with concealed carry. Like many of you, I have a drawer full of holsters (and I only have three carry guns), extra magazines, laser sights, night sights, special springs and recoil rods, gun safes, various cleaning do-dads and storage and carry boxes.

Now, the entire picture is complicated by my use and evaluation of laser sighting devices. Saving the topic of the utility and usefulness of laser sights on a concealed carry handgun for another time, one big factor became apparent right away. When I received a Laserguard from Crimson Trace for my LCP I was faced right away with the fact that, other than a Versacarry rig, I had nothing to carry it in.

At this point, over the last two months with the CT, I have had it on and off the gun three or four times. I do now have a Jeff Hays cross draw OWB holster, which is very nice indeed and works better than any cross draw holster I've found so far, and I have acquired a Remora with attached mag pouch for it. However, my other holsters, carefully pared down from many I tried that fit right, work right and will last a long time do not work with the Laserguard. Hence, off with the laser and, like today around the house, on with the Bullard Bodyguard and LCP.

Having a laser on my gun is pretty nifty, although the jury is still out as to whether a Crimson Trace or LaserMax will find it's way on one of my carry guns permanently. But not being able to carry it as I wish, in the style and quality of holsters that I require, is a big stumbling block. But, I'll report more on this after the LaserMax units arrive for testing alongside the Crimson Trace.

Block Training

I got an email, and later a follow up phone conversation, with a small group nearby composed of experienced former LEO and NRA Firearms Trainers who have come up with a very good idea. I call it Block Training. It works like this. They have essentially taken a general two-day intensive handgun and self-defense training class and broken it down into 2 to 2 1/2 hour blocks. This way a person can afford to begin improving his or her real-world handgun self-defense skills without having to pony up a few hundred dollars for the course, lodging, meals and a thousand rounds of ammo all at once.

I hope to be able to attend one of the first class blocks and report on this concept in more detail here.

Police Chief

The Chief in one of the local towns nearby is leaving after a long military and police career. One of the more interesting things he had to say was that he, along with many other in law enforcement, support the 2nd Amendment right to keep and bear arms. To walk the talk, he is planning to set up and conduct concealed carry classes in our area. Now, if you want to take one, it is at least a two hour drive, and if you don't want to wait until they get around to holding a class within that range, you can drive another hour or two. I'm looking forward to that and it's got me thinking about getting my instructor qualifications and helping out.

Lasers Again

I've already whined about lasers and holsters, so I'll spare you that. The update is that I am waiting on what I have been assured by LaserMax is a package with at least one laser sight evaluation unit, plus other materials. If I don't see it this week, I'll be following up with them. Once that arrives, and the snow melts and the ground dries, I will be able to get some range time with both models and have some  personal experience that I can hopefully translate into useful information.

Holsters and Forum Updates

Since my last post, the .380 forum has been revamped into the Concealed Carry Forum. We are now accommodating all pistols that are meant for concealed carry, especially the new crop of small, or compact, 9 mm and .40 cal guns. Many of the same people who were regulars on the Elsie Pea Forum have been participating on the CC forum, so I think it will continue to grow. We have the same crew of moderators, plus on who was always on the .380 forum.



Holsters

I have been carrying and living with the Versacarry for a few weeks now and have some remarks on it. I have also received a very nice kydex holster from pjholsters.com for my LC9 which I have also been carrying. This one is very light and functional and pj has his quality control down pat. I've seen a number of kydex holsters, and this one is the best made of the lot. Some observations below.

My basic holster philosophy

My criteria are three: comfort, security and accessibility. In my view, holsters for concealed carry should meet all three of those criteria, and the best holsters will excel in all of them. Few do.

Comfort

My feeling is that if one is going to the trouble and expense, and commitment, to carry a concealed pistol, one should commit to carrying wherever and whenever legally possible. It is not a matter of, 'do I think I might be needing my gun today', it is a matter of will I have it if I ever need it. To satisfy that criteria, you must carry whenever possible, regardless of the weather, situation, clothing or company. So, a holster must be comfortable enough to tolerate all day.

Some people, and holster makers, proclaim that their concealment holster is so comfortable that some people forget they have it on. No thanks. First, if you carry any gun you should always know that it is there. Feeling the presence of your weapon is fine. Feeling irritated, jabbed or rubbed by your weapon and, perhaps, also your holster, is not. Simply put, if your carry system is not comfortable, you won't carry it for more time than you can stand, and one day or evening, you will be tempted to just leave the damn thing at home since it is literally a pain anyway. Bad idea. So, in order to meet criteria number one, it must be comfortable worn in the position, or positions, you need.

Security

An obvious criteria. The holster must fit the gun and hold it securely so that the gun, and the holster, do not move once placed into position. Some give or accommodation to one's body movements must exist, but the holster should basically stay where you put it, and hold the gun securely.

Accessibility

I am not a fan of "deep concealment" when that means positioning the gun so that it is mostly hidden below the belt line with only a portion of the butt showing and accessible. While it is important to keep your weapon concealed, it is more important in my opinion to have the gun readily accessible when needed. I've seen "deep concealment" holsters that hang the gun entirely below the belt about half way between the crotch and the belly button. You can't see it, that's for sure, but you can't get to it quickly either. So, what's the good of deep concealment when it gets between you and quick access to your weapon when you need it? No good at all in my opinion.

With that in mind, I have informally evaluated the holsters I have and use, and am trying out for the team, so to speak. I have holsters for three carry guns: Rugers LCP, LC9 and SR9c. Small, medium and somewhat large, both in weight and size, but regardless, all must successfully meet my three criteria in order for me to keep and use them regularly.

Versacarry

(Photos to follow)

Comfort

Good. But this varies with the size and weight of the gun. The Versacarry is basically a frame that supports the weapon with a plastic rod inserted into the muzzle which acts to press the frame of the gun against the vertical frame of the Versacarry to keep it secure and upright. There is nothing between your body and the gun. If you wear an undershirt, this is not really a problem if you are carrying a small to medium sized weapon. I find it to be fine with the LCP, OK with the LC9 and problematic with the SR9c.

Security

Once clipped on to the belt, the Versacarry is very secure. It stays in place. The combination of the plastic rod, reinforced with a long screw, and belt pressure will keep the gun in place. The only negative that some people might have is that this minimalist design is offered with a trigger guard only on one side. The Versacarry folks pointed out to me that this is not an issue because there should be nothing between the body or undergarment and the gun that could cause the trigger to be actuated, and they do not recommend carrying a pistol with a round loaded into the chamber.

Accessibility

The Versacarry is offered in various frame lengths for a given caliber. You can choose to have your pistol ride very close to the belt, in fact, deep enough to partially bury the grips, or up high enough for a so-called "combat" carry - grips high above the belt.

There is no re-holstering without removing the holster from the belt. Not a big consideration for a self-defense holster.

pjholster IWB

The pjholster is available online from pjholsters.com. PJ makes them from kydex with a tension screw to enable the user to adjust the amount of retention desired. A nice touch. I ordered one for my LC9, made with a straight drop and his innovative "C" clip, which is open toward the belt. The holster clips to the waistband and the belt runs through the C channel. No clip shows over the belt.

I was surprised at the quality of construction on this holster. It is excellent. PJ obviously takes great care and pride in his work, and this shows in the holster.

This model is also made from the lightest gauge of kydex he works with so it is very lightweight.the LC9 clicks in solidly and the tensioning screw ensures you get the tension you like. Mine came just right.

Comfort

Being light and with no extraneous materials, it is as comfortable as kydex can be. Probably more so than other designs. I ordered a straight drop because I like to carry in the appendix or cross draw positions and both work well without a cant to the holster. The pjholster is much like the Versacarry in that there is no "give" against your body, but I did not expect there to be with kydex. If the holster is placed exactly, I find it comfortable enough for extended periods and somewhat more comfortable than an equivalent leather holster due to it's thinness and light weight. If I had one set up for strong side carry with a suitable cant of 15 to 30 degrees and wore it strong side, I suspect it would be even more comfortable. And, if I had this exact same setup for my LCP, I suspect it would be comfortable enough for all day carry.

Security

This holster is very secure when worn with a suitable gun belt. In fact, it would probably work as well with any good 1 1/2" belt. PJ includes a square of heavy Velcro that you can attach to the outside of your belt to match up with the Velcro square glued into the channel of the C clip. This would add significantly to the "security" of location. I have not attached velcro to my belt. Without a good belt and adequate tightness, the holster can move around a bit. I think for medium and larger pistols, the belt clip, or belt loop designs would work better. The tension screw accommodates whatever level of tightness for the gun inside the holster you could want.

If absolute positioning is important to you, I would recommend either the belt loop or belt clip design. From the photographs of Paul's holsters, i deduce that the wide belt clip (or loop) designs would offer maximum efficiency without the need to resort to velcro with the "C" clip. However, I do prefer the lighter weight kydex of the "C" clip design and I don't know if Paul makes the other belt arrangement holsters in this lightweight material.

Accessibility

This is good for the way I had Paul set mine up. I would prefer having the grips ride about an inch higher, but with this holster set up with a cant, I think this would not be an issue. The gun is very accessible and draws quite easily and is easy to re-holster with one hand.

Overall

These are both lightweight designs stressing the "form follows function" school of design theory. For simplicity and ease of carry both perform well. The Versacarry does not fully cover the firearm, which for many will not be an issue. It is inexpensive and effective. I often use it with my LCP.

The pjholster is an example of quality craftsmanship expressed in lightweight kydex. It's just a damn finely made holster. It is light, covers the gun (and you) and offers good security comfort and accessibility. A definite choice for your concealed carry.

Please leave your comments, or send me an email with your thoughts.

Note on Versacarry: I have two individuals, a man and woman, who have been using the Versacarry holsters on a regular basis and will be sending me their experiences and thoughts soon. I will post them here as soon as I get them.

Posted with Blogsy

The Elsie Pea Forum is no more

Change. It's inevitable.

A few weeks ago the great Else Pea Forum changed hands, and changed names. It is now the Ruger Pistols Forum and under new ownership and management. The EPF (Elsie Pea Forum) was started after the release of the Ruger LCP by a few dedicated individuals who wanted to have a place for those who owned or were interested in the new Light Compact Pistol from Ruger to communicate and exchange information. It quickly grew to ten thousand members, and about ten times that number of regular visitors who did not sign up to be members. It became noteworthy because the team of moderators and the owner kept the forum focused on gun ownership, information, assistance and discussion and did not allow ranting, obscenity, political, racial or religious discussions (which normally turn ugly immediately on most forums). These 'rules' were strictly inforced and, as a direct consequence, attracted and kept people interested in intelligent and civil discourse concerning Ruger firearms, primarily, gun safety, concealed carry topics, etc. Last year I was invited to become a moderator on the forum and I quickly agreed. It was a wonderful experience. I learned from the outstanding team of moderators and the owner how a forum should be managed, and I learned from the members that by and large, people appreciate being treated with respect and politeness even when disagreement is inevitable.

However, since the new owners have assumed control, it became apparent to most of the moderator team that their philosophy of forum management and certain topics like gun safety and communciation with members differ significantly from ours. Consequently, most of the old moderators have resigned those duties, and I expect all will eventually resign. No need to get into details. Those are available on the forum itself. I hope that the same attitudes of polite and respectful communication, attention to gun rights and the safety of gun owners and those around them and the intolertance of invective, obscenity, ranting and prejudice will not be tolerated. Most of the other gun forums I have looked at suffer from all or some of those characteristics and I do not have time to engage in that kind of activity, nor would I if I had time.

Among some of the things I learned from moderating the Elsie Pea Forum:

• If treated with respect, most people will respond in kind.
• Disagreements can be handled with intelligence and passion, but don't have to degenerate into rants and screaming matches.
• You can't satisfy everyone.
• There are many more people who know a lot more about guns than I ever will.
• It is possible to make real friends on the internet.
• Everyone's got an opinion. At least one...
• Having a gun when you need one is more important than the reverse - regardless of the caliber.
• The right to protect yourself and others is a natural, inalienable right and must be supported.
• There are a lot of handguns available out there, but I like Rugers the best.

Many of us have moved over to the www.380forum.com for community and communication.

Perhaps a new Ruger-focused forum will arise with the same values as the old Elsie Pea Forum. If it ever does, I'll be back like a shot.

Need for Knowledge

As some of you know, I am one of the moderators on a large gun forum with over ten thousand members. ( elsiepeaforum.com ) Most of the members do not post, which is pretty much the norm for internet forums in my experience. But, from the ones who do post it is possible to discern some trends in people's attitudes and knowledge about carrying handguns for self defense - legally, of course.

The main thing I am seeing is that there are many more people getting their concealed carry permits, buying guns, strapping them on and carrying without enough basic knowledge about guns in general, gun safety and correct and safe use of their weapons in particular. I would feel better if those who were carrying legally were well versed in the law and their responsibilities, and solid in their knowledge of how and when to resort to their weapons.

For me this breaks down into two main areas: the legal and moral responsibilities one has accepted in order to carry a gun, and the minimum level of training in safety and shooting skills needed. As I have noted in a prior post here about the "Aftermath" class, the former can be acquired by attending a good class, reading many of the excellent books on that subject and engaging experienced members of a good gun forum in questions and discussions. The second is more complicated.

While books and videos can teach basic gun safety, they are only the starting point. Safety involves you and those around you, especially if you have children in the house, or likely to visit. Think grandparents, for example. The first impulse is to lock everything up in the safe when kids are around. This is obviously a good idea, but beyond that, what can you teach youngsters about gun safety when you are not around? Like, they are playing at Jane's or Jimmy's house and Jane or Jimmy comes up with dad's gun. This happens more often that we would like to think.

I believe it is imperative to teach young people about guns from the safety perspective. What they are, how they operate. That they are inherently dangerous and should be respected but not feared. And, most importantly, all guns are to be considered loaded. For my kids, I taught that and the basic rule, not to be trifled with, that if one of their friends comes up with a gun, to ask them firmly to put it down, and then leave immediately, encouraging any other child present to leave also, and report this to the nearest adult. If no adults are around, get out of the house and call 911.

Adults who carry with minimal knowledge and with preconceived ideas garnered by conversations, movies, the internet, etc. are potentially dangerous to themselves and to others. One example that comes up frequently in the forums are people who buy steel clips to attach to their carry guns so that they can be clipped to the waistband of their garment. No holster. Trigger not covered. This, as we always point out is a very bad idea and can get them and innocent bystanders shot. Even after a significant number of experienced forum members have pointed out the serious safety flaw in this type of carry, there are still those who think they know better and blow off any warnings.

We also see people who are basically afraid of their guns. Some will buy a readily concealable pistol like Ruger's LCP .380 and when they finally get around to firing it, the noise and recoil shocks them. Some learn to use it properly. Some shoot a few rounds and then stick it into their carry holster and go on about their daily business. Some sell it and get something bigger that doesn't have the perceived recoil. They don't shoot that one much either, but still rely on it as a carry weapon.

I could go on with other types of stories but the essential thing is that in order to carry effectively and safely, one must learn basic gun safety, preferably from an instructor who knows what she is doing and, better, is certified by the NRA or other recognized organization to be a firearms instructor. Then, one should practice regularly - not just shooting, but gun handling, loading and unloading properly, holstering and storing the weapon away safely. And, frequent cleaning and inspection, looking for anything out of the ordinary that might impede the safe operation of the gun. Often impending problems can be spotted and recified early if you practice regular inspections of your firearms.

All this makes sense, but can it be required of concealed permit holders? Probably not. There is little uniformity in state law that regulates how proficient a person has to be with shooting and gun safety before a permit can be acquired. In Colorado, you merely have to take a concealed handgun permit class, and present proof of that along with some other minor documentation in order to obtain your permit. You do not have to demonstrate you could hit a wall if you were shooting inside your house.

This is likely not going to change in the near future. Or distant future for that matter. One good reason is that, constitutionally, nothing of this sort is required as part of our right to keep and bear arms. I am sure that when that was written, most children were intimately acquainted with guns from an early age, learning from their parents and relatives how to use them and not act like a damn fool. I was taught very early on by my father and grandfather, and later by the US Navy and Marine Corps. All-in-all, excellent and unforgiving teachers. I thank them for it.

While the idea of mandatory firearms training in safety and shooting skills as prerequisties for a conceal carry license is, at first, an attractive idea, I don't like the idea of a bureaucratic mandate, controlled by government officials. That, to me, strikes at the foundation of a free people with second amendment rights. I think it is up to us to encourage and help those who need it in this area, not another government body.

If you are not as familiar as you should be with gun safety and your shooting skills, not target shooting, but self-defense shooting, please work on getting the necessary skills and knowledge. Take some classes. Find some good firearms instructors who can teach you these basic skills and practice and train with them so they are second nature. We all make mistakes, but it is good to make little mistakes, not big ones when people's safety or freedom are at stake.